Carbon 3D

Post, review and discuss any commercial machines. Try to include links, specifications and prices.
hegykc
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby hegykc » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:20 am

Well, I use the printer for actual production, so i would have absolutely no problem paying up to 2.000$ for a single sheet of 450x650 sheet of film, or multiple of them.

Not everyone is a hobby user.

Just ask Phiphe, he's about to make hundreds of thousands on this.

Phife
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby Phife » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:08 am


hegykc
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby hegykc » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:35 am

Kidding of course, trying to keep things light :mrgreen:

But seriously, more money for a thicker larger sheet would be no problem at all for a commercially used machine. Especially when this magic sheet simplifies all the other components.

Leinad78
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby Leinad78 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:37 am

I tested continous printing with my bottom-up machine and lowering the release force to zero is just one of few other things that need to be considered. Its definately not as easy as to replace the FEP film with Teflon AF and your having the ultimate 3d printer ;) Thats just not gonna work.

Having said that, there are much much cheaper ways then Teflon AF.

Phife
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby Phife » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:26 am


Leinad78
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby Leinad78 » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:34 pm

As i´m dealing with patenting them, i can´t give further instructions right now :oops: . The first testprints last week were pretty good for an absolutely prototyping stage.

Software definately needs to be tweaked :!:

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octanees
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby octanees » Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:56 pm

Yes, I am 100% agree, Software needs to be tweaked for make more accurate tests.
at my latest test trying to emulate continuous printing, I noticed that the standard FEP teflon needs to be really highly tensioned, if is not enough tensioned ,you can clearily noticed that fails 500micron stepping on the 3d printed piece, that is caused for the maximun bending suction curve between teflon and rigid glass base when is building every layer.
Image



lostminty
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby lostminty » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:38 pm

Hey, new to the forum. Been interested in sla for awhile. I have a few qualifications in materials engineering, processing and mechanical. Plus maths.

At first I thought the current trend in this thread was deviating erroneously from the carbon3d design where they have a permeable window of Teflon. I saw later that you rely on the Teflon layer on top of glass maintaining the same dead zone, rather than the window replenishing it.

I understand that would be great for a fix to already existing systems, an adaptation of another vat system I saw mentioned.

Polymers in general have excellent oxygen permeability, I imagine commercial products however are more often designed to reduce its occurrence for reasons of oxidation etc.

Poly ester resins can have a permeability for similar gases (CO2 and hydrogen) of between 2 and 22 (forget the unit, Teflon has one of 4.2 at first look). Polyester resins have excellent mechanical properties, and can be found with similarly useful optical properties.

They can also be cast. A key factor will be surface finish. One technique for controlling this is curing it between a sandwich of acetate transparencies.

Getting a minimum thickness for the desired oxygen transfer rate and still having the rigid ness to warrant removal of the glass is where the question lies for me. Both of these factors can be calculated once I have some dependable numbers for the oxygen permeation of a suitable polyester resin.

I'm going to look into controlling the permeability of polyester resins. But it should be trivial to control via the curing rate.

lostminty
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby lostminty » Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:52 pm

Always best to check units. Didn't realise Teflon af was special in that sense.
The numbers I mentioned for the barrer coefficient were orders of magnitude apart.
If I figure something more tangible out I'll let you know.

hegykc
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Re: Carbon 3D

Postby hegykc » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:26 pm

From the interview:


"When the UV light hits a photoinitiator, it generates a pair of radicals. We call that a primary radical, which can do one of two things: it can initiate polymerization, converting the liquid resin to a solid, or it can react with the oxygen, and the oxygen will quench and kill it. And the rate constant for the reaction of the radical with oxygen is much faster than the rate constant for the radical to react with the liquid resin. So if you have any oxygen present, the oxygen will do its job quicker than the polymerization process will take place.

All resin has certain amount of dissolved oxygen in it, and you normally don’t kick off a chemical reaction until the oxygen is all gone. But in our particular case, we have a large supply of oxygen coming through the window, so you can imagine if we had too much light, we can override the oxygen and that polymerization front will slam down on the window, and we would have to peel, like everyone else. But if we control the amount of oxygen relative to the amount of light (it’s easier to control the light than it is the oxygen regarding a fixed membrane), then we can grow these parts in a fixed manner.


Right now, this process works because we understand the physical measurement for every resin. Every resin is different. For example, we need to know how much light is needed to solidify the resin. We need to know how far the light penetrates into the resin. The light penetrates further than the oxygen. That’s important in being able to make a part.

Viscosity is really important as it plays a role in resin renewal. All of that is rolled up into software code, almost like an API for a 3D printer. Every resin has a different set of code, so we can do some quick measurements on each one of our new resins, and upgrade our code to make it printable. It’s great software that will make the user experience wonderful, and people don’t have to worry about that. "

------------------------------------

So, even with a working Teflon FA vat floor, you could diminish the oxygen permeability effect and "kill" the deadzone by projecting too much light. Because with CLIP you effectively have 1 micron layers, and if you put several thousand lumens of uv light into each 1 micron layer, you can overcome the deadzone effect, and bring back all the problems of a regular layer by layer system.

Or in other words, even a very low permeable vat floor could support continuous printing, but with sending very little amount of uv light energy into the resin so that you don't overcome the deadzone.But this would in turn require very slow Z speed, and very slow print speeds, thus eliminating the very advantage of the CLIP method. That's where the enormous rate of oxygen permeability of Teflon FA comes in.

I guess if you're curing 100 micron layers like we are now, for a 1 micron layer you would have to bring down the projection energy multiple times not to disturb the deadzone.
Which is a lucky turn of events, because this would help greatly with lcd projection systems which are known to block the majority of uv spectrum, or they need hundreds of Watts of led power.

If this means that CLIP method requires 1/10 or 1/100 of the light intensity of a normal system, because it cures layers that are 100 times thinner, then this would open many doors regarding lcd based projection.


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