Carbon 3D

Post, review and discuss any commercial machines. Try to include links, specifications and prices.
User avatar
octanees
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:05 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby octanees » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:05 am

yes it works,the peeling is awesome and is imperceptible, but the micron stepping result on 3dprint doesnt match with the value that I put on CW parameters, that was 32 microns, and the result on 3dprinting was around 500 microns between slyces



hegykc
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:54 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby hegykc » Wed Mar 18, 2015 7:45 am

I would guess that 0.5mm was what it took for the fep to "comletely peel off".

To test continuous printing on regular tensioned fep, it would be much easier to try a simple 10x10x10 cube.

Set everything to 0 in CW and put layer thickness to 10mm which is the height of the cube. Some manual gcode to project slice 1 for the time it takes Z to move 10mm up, and Z axis to move 10mm up at the same time. Without the ";<Slice> Blank" command which is what turns off the projection I suppose...

vinto
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:19 am
Location: Indonesia
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby vinto » Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:22 am

I think oxygen permeable layer still needed. This is the key
That layer improve the cure speed 2-4 times faster

I prefer find the alternative for Teflon AF which have the behavior like silicon sheet
or contact lenses material

About the mechanical movement, I belive steve can handle it

pizzaslice
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:56 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby pizzaslice » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:23 am

I have thought about it for some time. If you put resin in contact with air and illuminate from the top with a beamer you should be able to study this deadzone effect which enables this CLIP technology.
As it is in direct contact with air, you can also state that you are illuminating resin with a super layer, which is extremely permeable to air.
I personally doubt that the non curing layer, or deadzone, in this setup is a 100 micrometers. so that resin starts to cure at 101 micrometer in the fluid, and not at the top of the fluid due to oxygen.
In my experience, if this layer exists it is in the order of micrometers but it could be that I have been using a too high dose.

Thinking about the CLIP technology more and more, I would like to see some first proof of concept in air. So set the beamer to a low dose, illuminate for a short time and proof that the resin cures at 101 micrometer and not at the top.
Even if this would work, I doubt that boundary of the deadzone is parallel to the Teflon sheet. It will be different at the edges of a newly formed layer where a lot of fluid is flowing to form the next layer, than from the middle of a newly formed layer where the fluid flow is less. It will also depend on how much oxygen can permeate in the resin.
Last edited by pizzaslice on Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hegykc
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:54 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby hegykc » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:04 am

I wouldn't be surprised if there is misleading info in the patent or marketing. That's how it's done. You bury the recipe in as much junk as you legally can.

Just look at the 10 Barrer permeability rate. They could have just said a 340 and 990 Barrer membrane is used. Instead they said at least 10 Barrer membrane must be used. So you have people experimenting with a 10 Barrer material and it doesn't suddenly it doesn't work for them.
It is most likely the same with the dead zone, the say 100 mircron, but it could be 1 micron for all we know.

Anyway, I don't think a pure oxygen layer can be compared to a permeable membrane. It's basically oxygen coming through solid material molecule by molecule. It could be that there's no deadzone at all. What if the molecules prohibit only 50% of the botom layer from solidification, or 30, 20%.. some amount that is enough for the layer to release with no force and go up, while the resin fills in. The next slice smooths the model surface and again solidifies only xy% of the bottom layer so it can again release with no force, and so on.

The important thing is that it works :mrgreen:

Can't wait to construct my tension fep vat and try continuous with that, just to see what happens.

pizzaslice
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:56 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby pizzaslice » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:27 am

What is interesting to note is that the speed of the carbon 3d printer is not uniform, you can see it clearly in video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTJq9Z5g4Jk .
It is much slower in the layers where it has to cure a lo of fluid which is in contact with each other.

hegykc
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 2:54 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby hegykc » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:57 am

Yes I saw that. I does say something in the patent about calculating the slice surface and adjusting the resin feed or something like that. So it probably adjusts the Z speed also, that's where 25-100x faster statement probably comes from. Because you can probably move up much faster on those 1x1 mm beams, then on a solid 50x50 slice.

crusoe
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:04 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby crusoe » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:10 pm

What about gore-tex film? Very gas and vapor permeable. The only question would be resin seep through and translucency.

User avatar
octanees
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:05 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby octanees » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:10 pm

That video is from earlys prototypes.
If you have a look at final stage printer(the black one that was showed on TED) the movement is equal in terms of velociy from first slyce to the end.Anyway, with ONLY two videos of reference is pretty much difficult to know the KnowHOW of the machine.

the other video with continuous velocity



crusoe
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:04 pm
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: Carbon 3D

Postby crusoe » Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:17 pm

http://www.nafionstore.com/NAFION_Products_s/6.htm

Nafion is also very gas porous, but may cause reactions in the resin due to sulfonic acid groups.


[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1266: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable