Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

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Hugues
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby Hugues » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:33 pm

Hi guys,

been printing various parts these past 3 months with my new Titan1,

I'v been printing with Funtodo Industrial Blend. Honestly, the only thing industrial in this resin is the name. Even FDM/PLA is stronger than this.

The parts are so brittle, they cannot really withstand any flexural or torsional stress. Maybe ok in compression, but don't bear the weight near sharp angles.

Can you guys recommend any resins for engineering purpose. I mean, just bearing normal forces in flex, torsion and tension. I'm not expecting to build a combustion engine.

jcarletto27
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:38 am

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby jcarletto27 » Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:55 pm

I don't have any experience with it but, the Vorex resin is supposed to be pretty sturdy.
http://madesolid.com/vorex-resin.html

comes in black and a pretty cool looking translucent orange.

jkao
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:42 am

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby jkao » Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:14 pm

3DM ABS is also stronger than FTD IB.

However, just to set your expectations, there's no resin that's really as strong as genuine ABS, whether injection molded or printed from an FDM machine. From MadeSolid's testing, Vorex has an Ultimate Tensile Stress around 7600 PSI and and Elongation of 4.2%. ABS varies, but is often listed at around 6000 PSI and 30% Elongation (amount of stretch before deformation). MadeSolid multiples these two numbers together to come up with their "Toughness" rating, which by this methodology would make ABS 5.6 times "tougher".

I had to redesign some of my parts to make them thicker to accommodate the different in strength, or used some combination of FDM ABS and SLA Resin for different parts in the same assembly (depending on whether I needed strength vs. surface finish).

One area that resin does excel in, however, is temperature resistance, Since it's not a thermoplastic, it doesn't melt the same way as ABS or PP. That's why ABS-like resins are used for prototype injection molds, since hot melted ABS won't melt resin the way that it would an ABS mold.

jkao
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:42 am

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby jkao » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:11 pm

In comparison to PLA, Natureworks 4043D (the most common US-sourced stock for PLA filament) has an Ultimate Tensile Stress of 7700 PSI and Elongation of 6%. That makes it 1.44 times "tougher" than Vorex by MadeSolid's methodology.

Hugues
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby Hugues » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:45 pm

ok thanks,
not sure i will order the Vorex resin then, and it's expensive.

I truly hope there is some breakthrough on the resin side in the coming months/years, without that, there is not so much i can do with my printer really.

In the meantime i hope my new SLS printer by Sintratec (http://sintratec.com/) will provide stiffer parts, delivery in july, ok the surface smoothness is not as great as DLP/resin, but it seems better and more uniform that FDM. And there is a great variety of Nylon, some with carbon.

jkao
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:42 am

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby jkao » Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:40 pm

Ooo.. SLS, that's sweet technology if you have sufficient space to deal with the powder cleanup.

That machine seems to run Polyamide 12, which when used for SLS has the properties described at:

https://www.solidconcepts.com/materials/sls-materials/

In particular, tensile strength of 6800 PSI and elongation of 15%, which by the "toughness" standard puts it 2.2X tougher than PLA. ABS is still 1.76X tougher, but it's hard to beat ABS's elongation.

The one nylon SLS printed part that I have (printed by Sculpteo) seems to reflect this. Stronger than PLA, weaker than ABS, and miles stronger than any SLA resin.

Hugues
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby Hugues » Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:28 pm

well you reassure me, thanks.

As for the photosensitive resins in general, is there something inherent to the process that prevents people from developing some with a much higher resistance ? More plastic like behaviour rather than glassy ?


As for SLS and PA12. Sintratec have printed parts with this material (carbon filled polyamide):
http://www.windform.com/windform-xt-2-0.html
Tensile strength of 83.84 MPA, which is 12'160 PSI if i'm not mistaken
with 3.8% elongation at break, which seems sufficient for most of my purpose i think.

They have other variants too with up to 11% elongation.

jkao
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:42 am

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby jkao » Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:05 pm

I think the elongation that gives a part that "plastic" resiliency as opposed to glass-like breakage. Just comparing PLA and ABS, the general experience between those is that PLA is stiffer, but more brittle and overall more prone to breakage than ABS. That matches PLA's higher Tensile Strength (7700 vs. 6000 PSI) but much lower elongation (6% vs. 30%).

With composite blends (e.g. carbon fiber, glass), the tradeoff seems to be higher Tensile Strength but lower Elongation, which would mean more dramatic breaks (e.g. shattering) compared to warps and bends.

In this regard, it's possible that the softer resins better elongation, although maybe not by much until you get to the functional flexible resins since MadeSolid MS is only a tiny hair higher on the Elongation scale than Vorex.

dlp_builder
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:56 pm

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby dlp_builder » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:49 am

Hugues wrote:Hi guys,

been printing various parts these past 3 months with my new Titan1,
I'v been printing with Funtodo Industrial Blend. Honestly, the only thing industrial in this resin is the name. Even FDM/PLA is stronger than this.



Hi Hugues,

Although the IB is strong enough to make coathanger parts from it, the name has nothing to do with the strength. The name reflects merely the extreme temperature range it can take and the exceptional resistance against nearly all chemicals. (You can read all about the properties on the property pages on our website).
Besides the colour properties, our new Blends 'Snow White' and 'Deep Black' have properties comparable to injection moulded plastics. (You know the stuf they use in modeling kits etc.)
Besides the material strength the design of the product is also of great importance for the strength of the end product.

Danny

Hugues
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:20 pm

Re: Any resins strong enough for engineering purpose ?

Postby Hugues » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:32 pm

dlp_builder wrote:....

Hi Hugues,

Although the IB is strong enough to make coathanger parts from it, the name has nothing to do with the strength. The name reflects merely the extreme temperature range it can take and the exceptional resistance against nearly all chemicals. (You can read all about the properties on the property pages on our website).
Besides the colour properties, our new Blends 'Snow White' and 'Deep Black' have properties comparable to injection moulded plastics. (You know the stuf they use in modeling kits etc.)
Besides the material strength the design of the product is also of great importance for the strength of the end product.

Danny

Hey Danny,

It would be nice to see a little more specs like tensile strength and the likes.

I could not find your new resins on your website, i 'm ready to give it a try, but having the specs would help me setting my expectations first.

Completely agree that design of part is of great importance, i'm a mechanical engineer, got good basics.

If you guys can come up with resins that are as hard as ABS or PA12, with very low shrink, i'd buy right away.


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