LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

This is the place to discuss DLP projectors, UV Lasers, Galvanometers, LCD screens and similar display devices. Also discussed are optics in general.
Phife
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Phife » Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:55 pm

Some medical monitors have a propriety connector, or use a companion video card that goes in the computer. Only a few have controller cards that can be run off normal DVI inputs.

If you get just the panel you will need to find your own controller, none exist for the 5mp panels, and ive only found the custom one from my supplier for the 3mp panels.

Oneminde
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Oneminde » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:25 pm


Oneminde
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Oneminde » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:52 pm

After Phife's response, a few good things have happened.

Oneminde
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Oneminde » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:24 pm

I am writing a very long article that I will publish asap I am done. Everyone stand to gain from this lengthy information, it is somewhat a game changer.

Phife
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Phife » Sun Mar 15, 2015 2:07 pm

looking forward to this "Game changer" of yours!

Oneminde
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Oneminde » Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:56 pm

What I have found so far is that most of these displays are 10, 12 and 14 bit. Such bit resolution requires a special graphical video card, hence why brands such as AMD Firepro, Nvidia Quadro, Realvision and Matrox are used. Normal ATI and Nvidia graphics cards are limited to 8 bit. Looking at Barco’s video cards or controller cards as they are also know, one can see by the design and spec that they are basically AMD Firepro. Some of the cards can be made by other manufacturers as well. 8 bit panels on the other hand can be driven by normal graphics cards. The information vary a bit regarding the information on the panel, so make sure to check the datasheet or request one if it is not available.

This article describes difference about panel bit and colour bit.


Barco and NEC monitors are among the most expensive monitors. As you read the info bellow, you will soon discover a red tread an options that are far more economical than Barco and NEC monitors without losing quality.

Here is some information and drivers for the NEC monitors – useful for selecting video cards or controller cards as some like to call it:



Eizo RadiForce GX540 - 5MP – 21.3” - 2048 x 2560 -165 μm
Eizo RadiForce GX340 - 3MP 21.3” - 2048 x 1536 - 211.5 μm
Eizo RadiForce GX240 – 2MP 21.3” - 1200 x 1600 – 270 μm

NDS Dome S10 – 10.4MP – 30” – 4096 x 2560 – 158 μm
NDS Dome S3 – 3MP – 21.3” - 2048 x 1536 – 211.5 μm
NDS Dome E5 – 5MP – 21.3” – 2048 x 2560 – 165 μm
NDS Dome E3 – 3MP – 20.8” - 2048 x 1536 – 206 μm

Dome graphics cards: NVidia Quadro, Matrox and AMD Firepro
http://ndssi.com/data/uploads/pdf/084-0 ... ix_USA.pdf

Planar Dome C5i – 21.3” – 5MP – 2048 x 2560 –
Planar Dome C3i – 20.8” – 3MP - 2048 x 1536 - 211.5 μm

Planar and NDS collaborate.

NEC MD215MG – 21.3” – 5MP – 2048 x 2560 - 165 μm
NEC MD212G3 – 21.3” – 3MP – 2048 x 1536 - 211.5 μm
NEC MD211G5 – 21.3” – 5MP - 2048 x 2560 – 165 μm

Double Black Imaging DBIMX30-LED/ DBIMX30-LED-NDT – 3MP – 2048 x 1536 – 211.5 μm
Double Black Imaging DBIMX50-LED/ DBIMX50-LED-NDT – 5MP – 2048 x 2560 – 165 μm
Double Black Imaging DBI10 – 10.4MP – 4096 x 2560 – 158 μm

U.S Electronics, Inc.
USEI MS35i2 – 3MP – 2048 x 1536 – 211.5 μm
USEI MS55i2 – 5MP – 2048 x 2560 - 165 μm

Widecorp IF2103MP / MX30 / MX30s – 3MP - 2048 x 1536 – 211.5 μm
Widecorp MX50 / IF2115MP / MX50p / MX50s – 5MP - 2048 x 2560 - 165 μm
Widecorp MW100 – 10MP – 4096 x 2560 – 158 μm
Video cards & drivers: http://www.widecorp.com/product/product ... &codeS=02#

Philips Brilliance LCD monitor with Clinical D-image C271P4QPJEW – 27” – 2560 x 1440 – 233.5 μm
Philips Brilliance LCD monitor with clinical D-image C240P4QPYEW/00 - 24” – 1920 x 1200 – 270 μm

AlphaView AVM3N2N – 21.3” – 3MP - 2048 x 1536 211.5 μm
AlphaView AVM5N0N – 21.3” - 5MP – 2048 x 2560 - 165 μm

TOTOKU-GRAYSCALE DISPLAY MS 55I2 - 21.3” - 5MP – 2048 x 2560 - 165 μm
TOTOKU-GRAYSCALE DISPLAY MS 35I2 – 21.3” – 3MP - 2048 x 1536 211.5 μm

Nanjing Jusha Display Technology Co., Ltd. – They have several monitors to choose from. See webpage for info.
http://jushadisplay.en.made-in-china.co ... log-1.html

PACSmate MMD-5201M - 20.1” - 5MP - 2048 x 2560 - 165 μm
PACSmate MMD-3213M 3MP - 21.3” – 3MP - 2048 x 1536 211.5 μm

MedteX offer 2-3 monitors as well. http://medtex.com.ua/english-site/monit ... X20s.shtml

KOSTEC – several monitors: http://www.n-kostec.co.kr/eng/page.php? ... &subleft=6




This is needed if you purchase the panel only. This is the communication between the graphics card (PC) and panel control card.
http://www.st.com/web/en/catalog/mmc/FM ... 1/PF252131

http://www.digitalview.com/products/lcd ... llers-home

http://www.spectrah.com/german/product/ ... d_6110.htm

http://www.siliconimage.com/

http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... ler/525352

Good information on DIB and Graphics cards.
http://www.siliconimage.com/docs/SiI-WP-007-A.pdf

Nvidia Quadro and grayscale info. (video control card)
NVIDIA®’s 10–bit and 12-bit grayscale technology allows these high quality displays to be driven by standard NVIDIA Quadro® graphics boards preserving the full grayscale range. By using “pixel packing” the 10-bit or 12-bit grayscale data is transmitted from the Quadro® graphics board to a high grayscale density display using a standard DVI cable. Instead of the standard three 8-bit color components per pixel, the pixel packing allows two 10 or 12-bit pixels to be transmitted, providing higher spatial resolution and grayscale pixel depth as compared to an 8-bit system.

As specialty hardware is not required, NVIDIA’s 10-bit grayscale technology is readily available for use with other radiology functions and easy to support amongst a wide range of grayscale panels from various manufacturers. In a preliminary study performed on 10 radiologists using Dome E5 10-bit vs. E5 8-bit displays in conjunction with Three Palms 10-bit, OpenGL accelerated WorkstationOne mammography application, radiologists’ performance was statistically significant on the 10-bit enabled display systems, some experiencing triple the read time speedup.

PDF: http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/Gra ... it_v03.pdf

AMD firepro grayscale info. (video control card)

http://fireuser.com/images/downloads/AM ... maging.pdf

Here you will find info that AMD is working with several monitor producers. Meaning that Barco use AMD as the base for their video cards, so it is basically the same with the eseption of drivers which in many cases are free from most monitor producers.
http://fireprographics.com/dw/solutions ... /index.asp


First of all, I will start this list with 8 bit panels and the reason for this is that 8 bit allows us to use normal graphics cards like Nvidia GeForce and AMD Radeon. The search was done via panelook.com. This information will give you a very nice understanding of what each panel will give you to work with. I have considered the bit, inches, resolution, microns per pixel area, brand, model and work area for each panel. I have not included the price or recommended Digital Interface Board since this is something one must research to find a good match. The price for the panels and DIB will vary depending on the manufacturer, vendor or seller.

I have listed some vendors for your convenience: http://www.invertercentral.com http://www.vcdisplays.com http://www.alibaba.com

Bit - Inches - Resolution - microns - Brand - Model - Work area (mm)

8 20.8 2048x1536 206 μm/123ppi IDTech ITXQX21 423.9 x 318.0
8 20.8 2048x1536 206 μm/123ppi IDTech ITXQX21G 423.9 x 318.0
8 20.8 2048x1536 206 μm/123ppi IDTech ITXQX21H 423.9 x 318.0
8 20.8 2048x1536 206 μm/123ppi IDTech ITXQX21J 423.9 x 318.0
8 21.3 2048x2560 165 μm/154ppi IDTech IAQS80 337.92 x 422.4
8 21.3 2048x2560 165 μm/154ppi IDTech IAQS80F 337.92 x 422.4
8 20.8 2048x1536 206 μm/123ppi CHIMEI* R208R1-L01 423.9 x 318.0
8 20.8 2048x1536 206 μm/123ppi CHIMEI*R208R1-L01-V2.2 423.9 x 318.0
8 20.1 2048x2560 156 μm/163ppi NLT-NEC NL256204AC15-021 423.4 x 346.5
10 30 4096x2560 157 μm/161ppi CHIMEI INNOLUX R300M1-L01 645 X 403

* CHIMEI is the same as IDTech

In this NEC display PDF, you will find a range of monochrome displays and information about them, be sure to check it. http://www.nec-lcd.com/common/pdf/en/lcdnews_e.pdf

NLT http://www.nlt-technologies.co.jp/en/pr ... nitor.html

Here is a PDF list on panels. I have tried to collect them all. In most cases you can see the model number in the link. Very useful when inspecting the panel and connections for the Digital Interface Board etc.

http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Libra ... ITQX21.pdf
http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Libra ... TQX21G.pdf
http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Libra ... TQX21H.pdf
http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Libra ... IAQS80.pdf
http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Libra ... AQS80F.pdf
http://www.beyondinfinite.com/lcd/Libra ... R1-L01.pdf
http://www.displayalliance.com/storage/ ... M15-01.pdf
http://www.encore-electronic.com/media/R300M1-L01.pdf

This list does necessarily list all of the available panels, but I can conclude with that IDTech, CHIMEI, CHIMEI INNOLUX and NLT-NEC are the largest and most used Monochrome panels. Philips have two monitors available.
Even if most of the panels are 8 bit, I will recommend that you look at a Quadro or Firepro card. Since these monitors will not be used for games, the large frame buffer memory type’s is not required and 512 - 1GB should be sufficient.
If you are even more curious about monitor and panel info, you can read this very useful article on page 21,22 and 23. Here, monitor manufacturer display in depth information. http://editiondigital.net/publication/?i=118337&p=22



What I have found is that there are plenty of substitutes for Barco. For some reason, Barco like to think they are special, looking at the $10-30K prices they charge for their monitors, NEC is not far behind either.

We have monitor options and the listed brands and models do appear on the used market. However, a used monitor is after all used and no guaranty’s or seldom is given. Refurbished monitors can give you a better deal, but they are also very expensive. Looking at the price for a refurbished monitor many times exceed the price of 2-3 DLP SLA printers and it quickly becomes unfeasible.

Used monitors:

Pros:
• Can be found cheap and there is a large range to choose from.
• Is a complete package with Display Interface Board.
Cons:
• No guarantee – might last one week or 5 years.

New panels.

Pros:
• The panel is new and can be found for a fraction of the monitor cost.
• Allow us to choose Digital interface Board.
• Since the parts are new and perhaps readily available, it can be repeated.
• Most if not all will work with AMD Firepro and/or Nvidia Quadro cards and some will work with Radeon and GeForce.
Cons:
• You need to understand more on what is going on.
• This setup cost more than used panels.
• … I am sure there are more but cannot find them.

Regarding drivers, there should not be any issues here since most producers will refer you to drivers or have them available on their webpage completely free. Don’t take my words on anything but instead do your own research so that you are comfortable and happy with your choice. I take no responsibility for the information given here; it is shared so that you can enhance your own knowledge.

Looking at the panel list, two are clearly the winners. R300M1-L01 is the one that gives the largest work area without any doubts. It is also a new panel and 10 bit. Immediately we know that it requires a higher grade graphics card and is probably one of the more expensive one. Depending on the price of the NLT-NEC panel, the R300M1-L01 is either a good or poor choice. The other aspect to consider is the desired build area and how often you think or believe you will need to build new or upgrade your SLA printer.

My view is that I want to build a printer that gives me the best value for my money without sacrificing quality. The X & Y resolution varies between 206-156 μm and lower is always better. But the overall cost vs print resolution and work area is something you as the constructor must decide upon. The Z resolution is decided by the stepper motor and the slicer so one must also consider these things.

When it comes to computing power of the system, it is fairly safe to say that a 2/4 core 3-4 GHz CPU and 8-16 MB ram together with the selected GPU on an m-ATX motherboard is more than sufficient.

That is it for now. Now go research and come back with some good input 

nicanor76
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby nicanor76 » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:22 pm

Really great info, thanks for sharing! I may start experimenting.

It got me thinking and looking at other similar monitors out there, I came across Ultra Bright LED monitors using blue LEDs. Not cheap, but costs as much as a super nice projector.
http://orionimages.com/product/15RTCLD.asp
Brightness 1000 cd/m²
Contrast Ratio 2500 : 1

Compared to some grey-scale medical monitors, same brightness but 2.5x better the contrast
Brightness 1000 cd/m² typical
Contrast Ratio 900:1 typical

Oneminde
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Oneminde » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:38 pm


hegykc
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby hegykc » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:31 pm

Thank you so much for posting this information.

Regarding the graphics cards, a low end Nvidia quadro should not be a problem, I see them used for 50-100$.
But Nvidia says that Geforce cards have 10bit support since 2007, if "10bit per color" means the same as just "10bit":
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/ ... force-gpus

And what about the mini lcd panels from lcd projectors? Aren't they monochrome? Get rid of the mirrors and anything else that might be blocking UV and just use the mini lcd panel, controller board and projection lens.

Anyways, I'm waiting on a few alibaba quotes on the R300M1-L01. If anyone has a controller board recomendation I would love to hear it. The ones from digikey don't seem to support the resolution.
With the development of the flexvat and perforated build plates, this should be a home run for large volume printing.

Oneminde
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Re: LCD Based 3D Printer - Introduction

Postby Oneminde » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:56 am



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